Cedric Muhammad: One of the interesting things about the Disclosure Project and some of the people that we have talked to is that you do include theological perspectives in this. And one of the things that we have learned is that, as you mentioned, the Vatican has looked at this matter seriously and then there are Islamic and Christian scholars and theologians — people who can actually look in Books like Ezekiel, Revelations and parts of the Qur’an and say that this is an indication of life that is far superior in technology to what we have here and even the existence of UFOs. What has been your level of interaction and consideration of these types of theological arguments that connect with the UFO phenomenon?
Dr. Greer: Well, I have actually dealt with this rather extensively and I am happy to say that except for your, what I would call, really lunatic fringe or fundamentalist element, that for the most part the world’s religions are quite ready to accept this. I mean I was at the Vatican a year and a half ago meeting with Monsignor Corrado Balducci, who is the senior theologian there and he stated point blank, “Of course there is evidence that this is real, and that it means not that it would challenge theology but that it would redound to the glory of God” to recognize that there would be intelligent life throughout the universe and not just on earth. And that this does not threaten any sane, rational, or valid theological understanding in any religion. I have meetings with people who are very close friends with Rev. Billy Graham who have said that he has favorably acknowledged the fact that there is life out there and that these UFOs are real.
Rev. Graham has said so and I have seen places where Rev. Graham has written favorably about the existence of life elsewhere and the existence of UFOs. Rev. Graham regards this issue as real and serious and does not regard the issue as a challenge to any fundamental understanding of Christianity. I have discussions with Jewish leaders and Islamic leaders who are aware that this is real and comfortable with the idea. If you speak to Buddhists, they have quite an understanding of a cosmology that includes life elsewhere and life in outer space. And in some of the ancient portrayals of these Vimanas and the ancient Vedas, the ancient books of India seem to be describing modern-day type UFO sightings. You also have and can talk to certain Biblical scholars who will describe things in Ezekiel and other parts of the Bible as well as the Qur’an that seem to describe that. And some of the newer religions—I think that the Ba’hai faith talks about the fact that there is life on other planets and in outer space and that there are many solar systems and that there is life on them.
And so I don’t believe that this is going to be a problem for theologians from any of the world’s religion except for perhaps some of your more reactionary and backward-thinking ones. I think that for the most part, people can understand that in fact this adds to our understanding of a Creator that is infinite and universal, that there would be life and intelligent life that would have its existence and would be living through the grace of this unbounded and great Being in other worlds, in other solar systems and other galaxies. And so I don’t see that this is at all a problem. If you go to the native people of the world — I am part Cherokee, Native American, my dad was half-Cherokee Indian — in those traditions they talk of being descendants of peoples from the stars. They even have traditions of specific star systems that they are descendants from. If you go to Africa you find tribes that discuss being descendants [of] or having relationships in ancient times with people from specific star systems. So, even if you take more of the native belief systems and cultural understandings and sort of an ethn[o]graphic review, you will find that this is not a problem. In fact, it is just common sense. And there is no problem, theologically, with understanding this issue.
Cedric Muhammad: When I spoke to Attorney [Daniel P.] Sheehan, he gave me a history that goes back to that 1977 conversation between then-President elect Carter and then CIA Director George Bush and which led him into an interaction with the Jesuits and the Vatican. Could you summarize all of that and bring it all the way up to your interaction with the Vatican?
Dr. Greer: Yes, it is interesting, because Mr. Sheehan shared this account and we have an interview that describes this. Once President Carter was denied access to this information by then CIA Director Bush — the current President’s father, of course, he was told to go to the Congress and get it. Well, eventually Mr. Carter made an inquiry through the Congressional Research Service’s Science Division and what they did was ask Daniel Sheehan, who at the time was Chief Counsel for the Jesuits in Washington D.C., to make an inquiry to the Vatican on behalf of President Carter and the Congressional Research Service to get information that the Vatican had. Interestingly, the Vatican did not deny that they had the data, they denied access. They refused to share it, which is really quite interesting. They in no way said that they did not have it. They simply said that we will not provide it. So that in and of itself is quite curious and quite strange.
But in addition to this, subsequently Mr. Sheehan ended up meeting up with some people with the seti (search for extra terrestrial intelligence) out in California and tried to help support the continuation for the Scientific Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence and subsequently asked a favor of the Congressional Research Service that he was dealing with. And Mr. Sheehan asked to see some of the secret Air Force files and a woman working there arranged it. And so one day they took him to a empty building in the Washington D.C. area that had not yet been occupied and took him into a room where he was allowed to look through different microfilm collections. And part of what he saw was a series of photographs that showed a UFO in broad daylight that had crashed into a snow bank in some place that was quite cold, because everyone in the photograph was dressed in cold weather clothing, and their was a retrieval operation by the U.S. Air Force of this UFO. And this was in a broad daylight photograph. And on the side of the UFO was a type of unusual lettering that was not of any human origin, which Mr. Sheehan actually traced down and kept. So that is just one person’s story of how he actually found out that these things are real. And of course this was an astounding thing to him. But I think it is also interesting that he was specifically asked to get information from the Vatican, on behalf of the Congressional Research Service, and the Vatican at that time refused to share the information.
Cedric Muhammad: And what of your interaction with the Vatican?
Dr. Greer: Well, you fast-forward to the recent period where I have met with Vatican officials, the people who are at the Vatican Observatory, people such as Monsignor Balducci, and they have been very forthcoming about how, of course, these objects are real and, of course, and it was not a situation where any convincing, on my part, had to be done. In fact, they were telling me that they are aware of this and that they have been trying to deal with how they have been trying to adjust their theology. But they seem to be at the point where that is not going to be a problem for them now.
Cedric Muhammad: What can you tell us of what you have learned of this technology and what it is and the implications it could have for parts of the world like Africa, and the so-called “Third World” countries?
Dr. Greer: Well, what is interesting about these technologies, and these are technologies that have not only come from UFOs and also by scientists going back to the times of Nicola Tesla and Townsend Brown, who have quite frankly stumbled across the same physical effects. One of the things that I point out to people is that the laws of the universe are universal: it means that a human here or a person on another planet can discover the same laws of physics. What I am saying is that we have, within classified projects both man-made as well as extra-terrestrially sourced energy and propulsion systems that do not use ionizing radiation such as nuclear power that causes pollution and radiation; and also which do not burn fossil fuels. If they could be released and put to peaceful use would enable the world to run off of energy that is around us in space and I don’t mean ‘outer space’; I mean the space, for example, in this room, or the space that you have around the device. What this means is simply this: that there is a teeming field of energy. Some people call it the zero-point energy field — there are other names for it — that supports matter and energy and space-time around us. And there is a way through electro-magnetic technology to tap into that. It is like tapping into the force of water falling over a waterfall and turning a turbine. In this sense you are tapping into a field of energy that is teeming all around us. And once you tap into it, you get enormous amounts of power out, that can generate energy for your house or your car or your industry without spending trillions of dollars building centralized power plants, power lines, infrastructure, burning fuels and polluting the earth etc….Now, why is this important to people in what has been called the Third World or Africa and why is that important to the long-awaited rapprochement between the industrialized countries and these poor countries? It is essential. This is the secret answer.
There is no question about it. Let’s look for a moment at the current situation. We have a world now run almost exclusively on fossil fuels. If we were to have 10% more of the world’s population living the way Europe and America does, which is only 600 million people. All of America and all of Europe is 600 million people. The world has 6 billion people. If another 10% of the world lived the way we do, there would be such a shortage of fossil fuels, refining capacity, shipping capacity, everything that the price of a gallon of gasoline would go up to $100 dollars a gallon. It would bring the world’s economy to its knees. What this means is that the world is configured today, because of the energy system, in a zero-sum game, which requires, and that is the key word — “requires” — because this is not just an accident. It requires that most of the world be kept in mind-numbing poverty. It is impossible for there to be any real industrialization, even if it were financially feasible, it is not logistically possible because of the supply of fossil fuels, to have Africa, India, South America and all of the other places that have enormous poverty to begin to live with the level of industrialization, air conditioning, refrigeration, manufacturing, transportation that we have in the United States, Europe and Japan. It simply wouldn’t be possible. So, with the release and the disclosure of these very important technological breakthroughs is really a key to enabling the world to move to the next chapter of its existence where it can eliminate this kind of poverty, create a just world and also, begin to get under control the enormous environmental damage being done to the world.
The other thing is that it will help to solve the Malthusian dilemma of overpopulation. Every study has shown that when a society becomes more affluent, comes out of poverty and has more educational opportunities, that birth rates go down, not up. What this means is that even the problem with overpopulation would be solved by eliminating the amount of enormous poverty and ignorance in the world. That can’t happen as long as the world is dependent for its entire operating system on fossil fuels for which there is a very limited supply and if demand were to go up by even 10% of the world’s population living like we do today in America and Europe, it would collapse the world economy; it would raise the price of fossil fuels exponentially; and it would bring the entire world’s industrial civilization to its knees. It means that we have got to introduce these new technologies. Now I will tell you that we have formed a company, called Space Energy Access Systems (SEAS) and people can see that at seaspower.com [now siriusdisclosure.com], where we are in the process, right now, of evaluating some of these technologies and we plan to try to bring them out to the public against a great deal of special interest resistance, in the coming months and years, because we know that this is something that is way overdue. One of the shocking things that I found on my way to discovering all of these issues is that I learned that these technologies have been around for at least 50 years. That the poverty that we see in the world and the pollution and environmental decay, the mind- numbing disparity between the wealthy and the poor nations is a complete artificial contrivance that could have been fixed before I was 5 years old. A cubic centimeter of space around us, has enough power to run the world for a day, from this so-called zero-point energy field. This baseline energy field around us. The other thing that I should point out is that if you configure these devices so that they are counter-rotating electromagnetic fields, you get what is called an electro-gravitic or anti-gravity effect under high voltage conditions. That is what you see with these UFOs, they look like they are weightless, because they are literally operating in an anti-gravity propulsion field. This has enormous implications for travel, transportation and also construction, because then you can create a virtually weightless environment for a craft, an object, a building to do all kinds of things. These energy systems, for example, that generate energy out of the space around us, which have been by the way discovered and studied for many decades, and illegally suppressed by these special interests who want to keep the oil economy alive, I have to point out to you, quite frankly, would enable you, for example, to desalinate ocean water, and all of these places right now that have become deserts, that used to be lush forests could be returned to their pristine condition, because the cost of energy would be virtually zero.
You see, you have an engine that extracts energy out of the space around you but it doesn’t use any fuel. What it means is that the cost of the engine is no more than the engines we are manufacturing today, but you never have a fuel charge. You never have to buy coal or oil. This is an exponential change in how the world works. And here is what I think will happen: once we get this information out to the public, you’ll be able to see peoples who are now very impoverished have energy sources that will give them clean water, irrigation, transportation, light manufacturing, etc. … without any pollution and without an energy charge because it is not burning an energy source. What that means is that the 5 billion people who are not in Europe, Japan or the United States of America, will begin to have a level of economic development that will enable them to become equals in the world. I think that is one of the reasons for the secrecy. And I am hinting here at a bit of racism in industrial policy. Because when that happens, the current first world is going to really have to share power with the rest of the world. Let’s think about that. You have 5 billion people versus 1 billion. And even if only a fifth of that five billion begin to have the economic output that we have today in the West, they would equal our output and we would have to then seriously share geopolitical power with them. We would have to put a real seat at the geopolitical table, not just a token one. You know what I am saying (laughter).
So this has enormous implications for Africa, India, and other countries. And it has enormous implications for the quality of life on the planet and it has enormous implications for the environment. Now, these are all issues that are very pressing issues in the world today because it’s often been said that you really can’t have peace without justice. And how can there be justice when 80% of the world goes hungry and without the basic needs of a dignified existence? All while a very small handful sit in their palaces. So I think that these technologies would change that dynamic and the world needs for that to happen, but the people who are sitting in the geopolitical catbird’s seat, as it were, don’t really want that to happen, as you can imagine. And I think that is why we have had this secrecy. And it is so dangerous because this extreme secrecy on this issue has virtually driven the world over a cliff. And I think that we have got to wake up and make the direct changes and we encourage people from throughout the world to help us in that effort.
Cedric Muhammad: And a last point which I think does point to racism; there is even a very popular multi-platinum artist named Nas who has talked-about this sphinx-like face that has been photographed by the Viking explorer on Mars. I have seen the tape of such put out by a Mr. Hoagland. I don’t know whether you have seen it or heard of it but this face on Mars does look a lot like what we see in Egypt, in Africa and in some of the land markings discovered in Latin America. Have you explored this controversy at all?
Dr. Greer: I have explored and I think the jury is still out. But the people I have spoken to on the inside have confirmed to me that there are ancient artificial structures on Mars and that there may have been a very ancient connection between a civilization there and the early development of a civilization on earth. I think there has to be a great deal more data to prove that theory but it does speak to some very interesting concepts about ancient Egypt, about some of the Meso-American and South American structures that look very similar to the pyramids in Egypt. That it would indicate that there have been, in the lost past history of earth, very advanced civilizations on this earth that may have had contact with peoples elsewhere or certainly had technologies that were quite advanced, beyond what is currently accepted in archaeology and anthropology and I think that we may be now talking about many tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of years ago. But nevertheless I think that there is something to that. You know, it is very hard to explain away, for example, a cave drawing in France that has been dated to be 5,000 years old that shows something that shows what looks like a modern-day UFO landed with these people that don’t look human, standing around outside of it, and you see these sorts of things in ancient archaeology that would certainly support the idea that some of what we are experiencing today is not a new phenomenon, there may in fact be an ancient connection to it.
Cedric Muhammad: How can we help your work with both the Disclosure Project and SEAS in terms of developing this energy and bringing it out to the public?
Dr. Greer: Well I think the first thing is simply to get the word out. If everyone who was in the BlackElectorate.com network referred 10 more people to the DisclosureProject.org website so that they could get educated, that would be the main thing, because without knowledge you don’t have anything. So people first have to be educated. The second thing they should do, is they can get on our website and there is a section where people can fax their member of Congress and the President and ask them to hold an open hearing on this subject so that these scientists who know these energy systems and these other witnesses who are coming forward from inside these secret projects — we now have over 500 of them identified. This is the 30-year anniversary of Watergate. These are basically 500 Deep Throats. 500 people who are witnesses to these things. They deserve a fair hearing. So people can write their members of Congress and the president and ask that these hearings be held that would be open and free of secrecy. The other thing that people can do is help us raise the funds to do this. You know, we have done this mainly out of our own back pocket. There is no institutional support for something like this right now. So people need to help us raise the funds to do this. And the third thing they can do and this is very important, is continue to network us to leaders around the world who want to be educated, who need to be educated, and perhaps can be supportive and helpful. And I am just not talking about the United States. I mean throughout the world, throughout Africa and the Middle East, South America and the Caribbean.
We are now actively reaching out to people throughout the world to first educate their leaders and also then to ask for their help and support. And I think that the island nations of the Caribbean, Africa, India, and many other places when they understand what is at stake for them, as a people who are struggling with enormous problems and poverty, and tremendous inequality and also are suffering from the potential catastrophic effects of continued geopolitical instability, over the whole oil-war economy as well as the global warming problem that could swamp many coastlines and island nations in the Caribbean and elsewhere; when they begin to realize what is at stake and understand that this is not just about silliness and little green men and outrageous stories; but that this is really all about a very important secret that just may hold the key to solving some of the most pressing problems which they are facing. So I would encourage people who are reading this to network this to the right people.
Everything that we have done, whether it has been a meeting with a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee or a meeting with a CIA Director, it has been because someone heard about what we were doing, knew that we had a tremendous amount of credible evidence and then worked to network this to the right person and make a meeting happen or set up an event. So we would encourage people to do that kind of networking for us and also keep their eyes and ears open for insiders inside these programs or people who have been present during military operations or corporate programs dealing with this subject who would be willing to come forward. And the other thing is that people contact us if they know of people who have discovered one of these unique energy generation devices who would like to have help with being properly tested, properly financed, properly protected — because we have a tremendously effective security system in our sphere of influence — and properly disclosed to the public so that we can begin to get these systems out to the people who need it most. One of the things that I point out to people is that if you look at telecommunications where you have whole sections of Africa who went from having no means of electronic communications…
Cedric Muhammad: to having cell phones…
Dr. Greer: …to having cell phones. What I predict is this: if we can get the rest of the world behind this, they will go from having virtually no industrial civilization and they will leap-frog over the nasty polluting smoke-stack mess that Europe, America, and Japan have gone through, directly to these new technologies that will give them enormous prosperity and at the same time, will do so without damaging their beautiful environments. Now, I predict that is exactly what will happen. Now, if people in the rest of the world, and particularly people of color around the world, whether it’s Latin America or Brazil or Africa, begin to understand this, I think they will see that we have an enormous opportunity to transform the world from its current state to virtually a rose garden. And we could [have] this sort of paradise on earth, if we choose it. I believe in my heart, in fact I know in my mind, scientifically, but I can see in my heart that we already have all the knowledge, all the needs, all of the technologies that we need to create a sustainable and beautiful civilization on this planet that can endure for thousands of years. But we are going to have to choose it and we are going to have to make it so. And there will be people who will resist it but those are the dinosaurs that are going to go into the past and we have to create this good future, for ourselves and future generations. You know, I mentioned that my dad was half-Cherokee Indian, and we had a tradition in the Cherokee where it said that “everything that you do today you should be looking at twenty generations yet unborn.” And I think that if we sit back and think seriously about that, people will find the courage to do the right thing on this issue.
End of Interview
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Thursday, July 25, 2002
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